1997 Season Here is a history of the negotiations that led to the trade of Deion Sanders from the Bombers to the Muskrats for Dante Bichette and a waiver move. Thanks to Mags for putting this together. > From Mags Fox and John, This having been noted as being the first trade of the season, I thought it would be useful to share with you the gentle flow and skillful negotiating tactics used by the affected parties. For the record, I would say that this trade was clearly initiated by the Muckrats, seeking a basestealer and catalyzed by a mid stream bet with the Panzas . The beauty of this dialogue is we were both getting what we wanted, even with the late revision where I masterfully pulled the bait and switch (or did John set me up?), getting a waiver instead of trading for a comparably mediocre SS (although I would take Clayton over Guillen if I could). I really needed to waive two of my bozos and John is consistently anti-Yankee (I tried to unload Boggs on him a second time, and he stayed the course). So, it's clear that we were both happy with the results (for now at least). I'm glad I was able to make John happy by letting him keep Clayton. Although, as I mentioned to Fox, I would have taken the Guillen-trade and then used my waiver to dump him and add Blauser. But John, you're in first place (or close) and I'm not, so that says something for your strategy. Fox you can read this on the way to Sweden, if you are having trouble sleeping. See if you can judge who is the better psychologist. Share it with the others if you care to. Mags NOTE- The initial discussions started 5/7, culminating in a trade agreement on 5/14, and then revised quickly on 5/23 so that waivers etc., could be in place for the 5/25 deadline. From: John Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 3:03 PM To: mags Subject: Re: waivers ... again? Mags I'll trade you Bluama (KC -reliever) and hier apparent to Montgomery for Picchardo straight up. Deal? John ************************************************************************ **************************** Are you kidding? Offer me a functional player, not an injured unproven rookie. Bluma is going to have to get in line behind Pichardo and Monty. Mags *.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* *************************************************************** from John: Can you blame a guy for trying? This is war fella. But I can see that you're on top of things. I still cant believe the Bombers are right there on BA. I keep trying to get the poop on Bluma. He was their up and coming closer so I figured that with Monty down, he could pick up a few saves for me. But I guess he has a sore shoulder. What does that mean? Any idea where I can go on the net to get the low down? I've been to the Royals home page and all that. Mostly all you get is a two sentence report, but no predictions on a return. J ************************************************************************ ********************************** John, If you check that Rotonews page I told you about, you'll see that your man Bluma is toast. Time to use a waiver. If you are still interested in Pichardo, you'll need more than nutmeg to get him. mags ************* from John: . Yeah, I checked too. Let me check on some things. Where Im really hurting is in the SB category. You have any base stealers who are hitting better than .176? I 'll check thru your lineup and you do the same with mine... J *********************** from Mags: Well, the only SB man I have is Neon Deion, and he would be pretty expensive. I might consider pairing him up with my SS (Guillen) for Bichette and either of your SS. Nothing is free! ************************************************************************ *********************************** from John: True. Nothing is free. But let's go to the vdeo tapes: Guillen: .247 1 hr 7rbi 1sb Sanders: .347 2 hr 11rbi 20sb Bichette: .322 4hr 30rbi 4 sb Meares .284 4hr 16rbi 3sb Clayton .248 2hr 14rbi 8sb Jefferson .393 5hr 18rbi 0sb Your proposal seems tilted to your side. Thanks for offering to take Bichette and Meares off my hands for your pair. Clayton may come around yet... No, Bichette plays in CO and he will knock in 120, hit over 20 hrs AND hit for average AND steal 15-20.. Your guy Sanders gives me only lots of bases and average (if that holds up which aint a sure thing). Plus there's Cowboy camp coming up. I will, however, consider trading you Jefferson for Sanders straight up. Jefferson can flat out hit, so you wont lose in average. And he will give you more RBIs and hrs than sanders ever will. So you get helped in two categories, me in one... What do you think?. ************************************************************************ ******************************* from Mags: Ok, so I can't steal Bichette from you. Your proposal is interesting, but would be more so if the SS is included (either of yours). I need somebody who can steal occasionally just to give me a chance on the weekly contests. I gather trades take effect on the same cycle as waivers? If so, and we agree now, do we notify the ICC now so that we are locked into it? I don't want you pulling any fast ones on me fella. Let's mull it over the weekend, and you think about which SS you might throw in. I would offer Boggs for Castilla, but that is more tilted to me than you would like, I think. ************************************************************************ ********************************* from John: Boggs for Castilla? You're right. I wont go for it. as you can see, I like Rockies and Mariners (I have 5 of em). Both teams score a lot, though I cant understand why Jay Bruhner is still hitting .227. Could be that he crossed over that fine "age" line and he just cant get that strange swing to push around quick enough anymore. If you want to go Clayton/Jefferson for Guillen/D. Sanders I think I could go for it. Think about it. I think Clayton will hit. I cant believe he will sit there at .248 all year. He's better than that. He's already inching up a few points at a time. And if starts hitting, he will steal more, giving you those few sbs that you want. Guillen is batting .248 and is white bread at the plate. Any production from him would be a miracle. But if he hangs at .245-.260 I can live with that. Overall, given current stats Jefferson and Clayton give you the edge in this trade on average, home runs and rbis. But sanders addresses a big need of mine. So you're right. Lets take the weekend and think about it. If we still like in Monday we can act. I think we just inform Fox when we're ready. J ************************************************************************ ******************** from Mags: Well, none of the four players we discussed did anything this weekend to help the decision one way or another. I am a little concerned about Jefferson's playing time. If he don't get the At Bats, he can't produce much. I have a few others like that already. Thru Saturday, Clayton & Jefferson had combined .305 BA with 197 ABs. Guillen and Sanders also had combined .305 but with 236 Abs. It does look like I might get more HR and RBI production with your pair, but I would be conceding defeat in SBs for sure. Sanders looks to be pretty steady- my guess is he'll keep his BA and possibly improve in RBIs if the other Red Dogs ever get on base. I like Clayton, but I think a fairer trade would be Bichette for Sanders. You get the SBs and a slightly better BA- I get more power. And you keep Clayton. In either case, this trade could put you over the top and mean a championship ring. If that is the result, I should get rewarded- how about a Willamette Valley Pinot Noir? Whaddaya think? ************************************************************************ ************************ from John (simultaneously with above from Mags): Mags, So are we on? I notice that Clayton is now up to .259 -- up from the dregs is he. And Jeffereson is batting .386. Guillen and Deon for Clayton and Jefferson. You strengthen your team in Ave, Hr, and RBIs. I lose out on those 3 but score on stolen bases. I'm taking a gamble. I can tumble some on those top 3 categories (The only thing that's keeping me up there are perfect 10s across all 3). But I hope to make it up on stolen bases. You want Grissom? You want Buhner? John ************************************************************************ ********************************** from John: Bichette for Sanders? I'll think on it. My first hit on it is "no", but I'll look at the stats. Here's my read: The only reasons I am on top are 10 scores on HRs, RBIs and Average (that's 30 points right there). Add in another 10 with ERA and I'm cookin. I am losing out on wins, saves, and suck on SBs. With the trade you suggest, I will crawl up the standings on SBs, which is good cause I can make 3-5 opints, especially if I keep Clayton who is starting to hit. The question is whether I would lose 3-5 points in the standings that I gain by dumping Bichette. I wont lose much on average, but I will take a dive on HRs and RBIs, providing that Deon continues to perform as is. I'll lose about 90 RBIs (He's already got 30) and about 20HRs. What percent of that will Deon make up? Let me think. As I wrote, I started leaning toward a "yes". What's your analysis? ************************************************************************ ********************* from John: I asked Fox about the trade: His reply <> > Great! It would be effective May 26th for AL players, May 27th for NL players. You can inform me any old time ... but by midnight May 25th.> My latest thought: Bichette for Sanders? OK. That's right! OK! Now are you in or not? ************************************************************************ *************************************** from John: So I checked out the stats. Sanders traditionally has a hard time reaching 400 at bats. His 23 sb this year are just about his career best. You're asking me to gamble that this is a break out year for him, but I keep wondering about Cowboy training camp in August with the Reds 10 games back. Will he stick around? Clayton and Sanders are close, though Clayton has a bit better stats and he's younger so gonna get better. I can count on Guillen to hit .245-.260 with nothing else to contribute. And I mean nothing. Bichette is actually off from his last two years. Unless he really starts whacking the ball he wont hit 41 this year, though he probably will have 120-130 rbis. I'm thinking that with Sander's unpredictability, youre asking me to give up too much. Let's go back to Jefferson. You mentioned his ABs being low, but when you tallied it up the Abs for Guillen/Sanders compared to Jeff/Clayton were not that far off. Yeah, maybe they will platoon him some, but how do do you keep a guy whohitting .386 out of the lineup. I think he's a comer and will play more and more. In fact, he has one more HR than Bichette (5-4) and is only off about 10 RBIs. So right now I'm back to Clayton/Jeff for Guillen/Sanders. If we trade we only need to agree by May 25. That gives us time to think it over some... John ************************************************************************ ********************************* from Mags: Well I just responded to trade3, somewhat opposite to the gist here. I'll chew on this some. If we agree and inform Fox now, is it binding no matter what happens between now and the 25th? I don't see any problems with Sanders being steady this year. I think he wants to establish himself as a baseball force, so I think he'll stick around as long as possible and try to rack up some good numbers. But who knows? I think the uncertainties with Bichette and Jefferson are at least as large. Don't try your fancy psychology on me man. Mags ************************************************************************ ***************************** from Mags: Well, we're getting close. Guillen has a lifetime .266BA and should be good for 40-50 RBI and a couple HRs and SBs. He had an excellent spring training, which is why I picked him over the other dregs. Is Bichette healthy now? I guess he had an off-season operation, but he seems to be playing more than Jefferson (at least getting the ABs). Of course, if Big Mo Vaughn is hobbling, Jefferson can probably play 1B and crank out some numbers. That would be fun (pissing Willo off, that is). Just thinking out loud. I'll wait for your decision on Guillen, and then I'll decide on whether I prefer Clayton/Bichette or Clayton/Jefferson. How's that? I'm leaning towards Bichette though. You could have the pleasure of pissing Willo off. Mags, ************************************************************************ ************************************** Mags, Our messages must be crossing. Now you want Bichette and Clayton? I need to check on Guillen. I just dont want to see him disappear with a .196 Ave. I can live with a .250-.260. J ************************************************************************ ********************* from John: In a message dated 97-05-12 16:24:55 EDT, you write: << Don't try your fancy psychology on me man. >> OK I promise I wont. Just watch the watch, watch the watch... Pissing Willo off does count for something... We dont have to decide for a while. You should pray (Lutheran song these days?) that Bichette doesnt catch fire or that Sanders doesnt twist an ankle. I actually like Jefferson cause he's a Red Sox, and I like the Sox. We can figure something out... J ************************************************************************ *********************** from John: Bichette. You want Bichette. You want Bichette straight up for Deon. You do. Watch da watch. Watch da watch ************************************************************************ *************************** from John to Albert. (NOTE, this gives Mags some leverage!!!) Albert, You're right. I was a tad less than loud when all those side bets were being made. I'm not much of a betting fellow. The thought of Las Vegas bores me. But the thought of rooting for my SS to go 3-3 just to see the Panzas stay behind the 'Rats is exciting. A twenty spot? If so, say yay and have Fox book it. So now can I gloat guilt free? J ************************************************************************ ****************** D-day 5/14/97 from Mags (immediately after John's message to Albert): Clayton and Bichette for Guillen and Sanders. Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock You need Sanders to beat the Panzas on that double bet. Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock Time is running out Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock Clayton is important to me. Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock *.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* ************************************************************************ ******************************* from John (he's cracking...): I knew I blew it last night on the way home. I shoulda played it cool. Instead I mouthed off at Albert and now you think that I really care. WELL I DONT. I REALLY DONT. J ************************************************************************ **************************** from Mags (pressure..): Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock, Tick-tock ************************************************************************ **************************** from Mags (a masterstroke) : Sounds to me like you're (Royce) cracking. Watch out for (Dante) those ALL CAPS messages (Sanders). They're (Guillen) annoying. Subliminally (win win win), Mags (nice guy) ************************************************************************ *************************************** from John: My two sore spot OFs: Jay Buhner hit a home run two nights ago. Last night he had a two run RBI single in the ninth to win a 2-1 game. He's still batting .222, but is his bat coming alive? Grissom is batting .196 with a sore hamstring. Will he end up hitting .280? If the answer to these questions is YES and I trade with you 2 for 2, then I'm sitting pretty. But if Buhner and Grissom are a season long bust, then losing Bichette and Clayton is a disaster. But right now I think I'm going to do this thing with you Mags, 'cause you are such a great guy and I know that you would never take advantage of another human being. It's actually a good gamble for both of us. You help yourself. I help myself. I am out of town from May 20-23 with no access to Email. So if we are going to agree on this we have to do it by May 19, and then let Fox know. J ************************************************************************ *************************** from Mags (5/14/97): Johnny Boy, It's a done deal! Congratulations and I hope Deion treats you as well as he treated me. If not, well thems the berries. Guillen is 2/4 with 1 RBI this week- Royce is gooseeggs, so don't you feel better? Seems that I have a possible career as an amateur hypnotist too. I feel a certain pride in that accomplishment against such a formidable professional as yourself (or maybe everything has gone according to your grand plan afterall...). Buhner and Grissom should only improve, so you'll probably hang in there powerwise. And I hope Reggie lets you piss Willo off real good- he deserves it. Obviously the stress of living in Beantown is getting to him. This will throw some spark in the Bombers, I hope. as well. Although I fear that they are destined for the basement this year, unless the Leathernuts and Foxes continue to suck as bad as they do. I would LOVE to win that washington from Fox, especially if it's his team that I beat out (Fox, how about two georges if that's the case?) This is copied to Fox, so John just verify with the ICC that this is the trade and he can implement it when it's time. FOX- Bombers trade Deion Sanders and Ozzie Guillen to Muckrats for Dante Bichette and Royce Clayton. Mags ************************************************************************ ***************************** from John: Fox Yes, I'm going for the Deon the RedCowboy. Let's hope that my two sleeping OFs (Buhner and Grissom) wake up. So its Clayton/Bichette for Sanders/Guillen effective ASAP. Fox: one last thing -- Do not announce this trade until you have to. That is on May 25. I dont want to give anybody time to think about it before the bewitching hour. thanks Mags, The beauty of psychology is to listen to the other fella ramble on about how HE did the outfoxing. Maybe, just maybe, you hypnotized yourself. And all according to plan. You can stop watching the watch now. Kidding aside, I really hope the trade helps you, and especially if you can crawl over Willo in the standings. And I will be praying (Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, Buddhist songs) that Deon continues to think baseball, not football, and that Buhner & Grissom show up this year. Those things happen and I could owe you a bottle of red stuff come October. I cant wait for Albert's reaction... J ************************************************************************ ********************************* Fox's 2 cents: 5/14/97 Got it guys. Glad to see some trade action. I'd give Mags a slight edge in this one, partly because i don't think Neon can keep it up, but then again he's had great numbers on a struggling team so maybe he can keep it up. Probably it does help both clubs. I'll announce it next move update, as requested. Fox ************************************************************************ ***************** 5/23/97 (Mags has a genuine crisis): John, I want to waive two Bombers, and I only have one waiver. I don't want to rock the boat on our trade (I still like the deal), but I was wondering if you would be interested in substituting a waiver in place of the SS swap. This would mean you got Sanders for Bichette + a waiver pick. I'd live with Guillen for now. This may not be attractive to you, although keeping Clayton would be a plus for you. Alternatively, in place of the SS swap, would you consider a 3B swap (Boggs for Castilla). I suspect not. If neither of these suggestions is viable to you, then the deal still holds of course. Let me know ASAP. ************************************************************************ *********************************** from John (what a great guy!): Mags, Sorry but I just got in from an extended trip to Louisiana and Missouri. You wrote: <